Question:
I'm not a pilot, but I flew from Denver to San Diego on a 737 and I felt that we made a very fast descent,
2007-04-25 14:56:29 UTC
My question is how far out in miles from 30,000ft to sea level should a 737 begin it's descent and how fast should it be going? Also how much of an angle should the descent be at ?
Seven answers:
B E
2007-04-25 16:01:01 UTC
If you made a fast descent, it’s probably because the controllers requested that the pilot "expedite descent through X,000 feet for traffic." It's no big deal; they just do it to avoid traffic conflicts. Controllers have a bubble that they have to keep around each aircraft on their scopes. Computers can predict some traffic conflicts, but mostly it’s up to the controller to predict such events. I assure you, there was nothing unsafe or even odd about what happened to you. In the military, we get that all the time.



I'll start with the easy answers. Airspeed is dependent on airframe. Different airframes have different limiting airspeeds, and whatever airspeed you descend at is normally up to the pilot. I flew a small business jet and our max speed was 330 knots. I'm not an airline pilot, so I imagine they fly as fast as possible until they reached 10,000 feet above sea level. In which case, the speed limit is 250 nautical miles per hour (or knots). Within the terminal airspace of a major airport, that max airspeed decreases to 200 knots. Of course, there are exceptions for aircraft that need to fly faster to maintain a safe operating airspeed, like fighter jets. Descents are normally made using an instrument called a Vertical Velocity Indicator. It measures velocity, up and down, in feet per minuet.



Angle of descent is also another one that varies. Three degrees is normally what an aircraft uses on final approach to a runway and for the most part, it provides for a nice, gentle, comfortable descent in any situation. Now for how far away to begin a descent. There’s a lot of background math that goes into and I'll skip the derivation and go right to the formula we use. It's:



Height to lose divided by descent gradient equals distance from airfield to begin descent.



For height to lose, you take the altitude you're currently at (in your case, 30,000 feet) minus the altitude that approach control wants you at to begin your final approach, (ballpark, its normally around 2000 feet) and for descent gradient, 3 degrees gives you 300 feet loss for every mile of horizontal distance covered. So you get 28,000 divided by 300. The pilot would need to begin their descent about 94 miles from the airfield for a comfortable, 3 degree descent.



Now, an easy method is to just take the altitude you're at (30,000), drop off the last three zeros (30) and multiply by 3. This method gives you 90 miles to begin your descent. It's less accurate, but works in a pinch until you can figure it out with more precision. Normally, a pilot will work that formula backwards during the descent to find out if they need to increase the rate of descent to meet a restriction. Of course, there are no penalties for arriving at a lower altitude early, but the longer you can stay in a descent, the more gas you save and more comfortable the ride. Hope this helps!
Adoptive Father
2007-04-26 07:57:39 UTC
I am not a pilot but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Seriously, I used to travel to and from San Diego often. I heard somewhere or another that landing at San Diego is tricky for several reasons. The San Diego airport is virtually at the Pacific Ocean, meaning elevation of only slightly above sea level. Winds almost always flow from the ocean onto the shore, in this case west to east. Not very far east of San Diego are mountains. A plane landing at San Diego will virtually always land to the west, must first clear the mountains at a safe altitude and then get down to sea level quickly.
dcgirl
2007-04-26 07:20:51 UTC
Two good answers above mine. I'd like to add... sometimes you must descend much faster than usual because of the weather. If the wind speeds are higher than usual close to the ground, the pilot may bring the plane in a lot faster than usual because it is actually safer--- I can't explain all the physics but as the plane loses speed as it approaches landing, it is more vulnerable to cross-winds. Normally it's not a problem but if the winds are very high, the pilot will keep the speed up as he/she approaches landing, to prevent the plane from being knocked about by the cross-winds.



If you ever get to fly in a smaller plane like a regional jet, and land at Washington National on a windy day, you will know exactly what I am talking about!
clint m
2007-04-25 15:07:37 UTC
A lot of it has to do with traffic, if the airport is busy at the moment you arrive then the pilot may not have had a choice but to descend a little quicker than usual. At any rate he was more than likely following directions from San Diego approach controllers.
go_around
2007-04-25 21:20:24 UTC
that last guy rambled and i got sick of reading. a good rule of thumb is 3 times altitude/1000 e.g from 30,000 ft (or Flight Level 300) 30x3=90 miles. 90 miles at 4 miles/min (240 kts) takes 22.5 mins. 30,000 ft is only 1333 fpm in the decent. 1333 ft in 4 nm is 333 ft/nm, or a 3.33 degree decent. typically you get descended gradually thru different airspace sectors and you may get crossing restrictions or asked to hurry, but as a general rule alt/1000*3 is a good place to start.
2016-04-01 11:13:38 UTC
Chargers. Everything points away from a Broncos win except that they are an NFL team and any given sunday and they are a better road team. But my Bolts got it. We have players who didn't even play in week 2 against you back.
Servette
2007-04-25 15:00:54 UTC
Pilot needed to go pee


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